MetroRiders.Org

I finally heard a reply from metro responding to my questions on faregate operation with smartrip cards -

to paraphrase, here are the facts, as I understand them):

1. The faregates are designed to allow a string of customers to scan their smartrip cards and proceed through without a need to wait for gates to close between each customer.

2. HOWEVER, if the person ahead of you scans their card and gets a display message to see the attendant, the next person (you) who scans their card and tries to go through (without waiting for gate closure) WILL be jammed by the gates. In such cases, where the person ahead of you gets a "see attendant" message, you must wait for the gates to close before scanning and proceeding.

Unfortunately, it's often difficult (at least for me) to see whether the person ahead of you got a "see attendant" message or not. Hence, my advice (for myself, anyway) is to wait for the gates to close, unless your "eagle eyes" can see that a scan was successful.

per.

N2,

Thanks for your input.

From what you've said, I now realize I just need to be more deliberate in how I proceed through the faregates. For me, that means stopping after the person in front of me has cleared and the gates have closed before I scan my card.

Now that I think of it, another minor annoyance related to faregates are those last second "lane changers" at the faregates, folks who suddenly move into your lane without even a "head check" to make sure the way is clear. In those cases I try to make my sneakers "chirp" (similar to beeping a horn) on the floor, and laughingly think to myself that I hope I never encounter them in vehicular traffic.

Per.

i am not trying to argue. i am just stating facts. you cannot be paying attention and be inside without your card reading. it is impossible. you have either come in behind someone or someone was directly behind you.

and replacing the gates because people are always in a hurry isn't very feasible. maybe we can replace the entire propulsion packages too so the trains go faster because people are in a hurry. maybe we can just not stop at every station because people are in a hurry.

why replace the gates because less than a tenth of a percent of people cannot slow down. the other 99.9% seem to be okay.

maybe its me i don't know but when i go somewhere or participate in something i kind of believe that the system is set up that way for a reason and i see no need to try to alter it because i do not like the way it works.

N2

Well N2, rather than just arguing -

why are WMATA's turnstiles better than NY's? I never had any problem with them.

Back in the day we used farecards. Given that you needed the card back, the WMATA turnstiles worked fine. Now we use SmarTrip. That changes things. I don't think the gates work well with SmarTrip.

I pay attention. I have ended up inside without the card registering. I don't know why, but it clearly happens to me and others. Hence, there is a problem.

And yes I am going to hurry if I am trying to catch a train. It is easier to change the design of a gate than human nature.

Ok, sorry about the rant.

any mechanical device can only do what it is designed to do. it is not designed to do what you want it to do. i find this to always amaze me. this along with those that think since the train doors are closing they will throw a briefcase or an umbrella in the doors and think they will reopen like an elevator. and they get upset when it doesn't. and then they tell me "thats what it should do". why because you want it to?

so faregates only open when a card is processed properly. it cannot let you through with out using a card. please do not confuse operator error with mechanical failure.

secondly, no one gets through "by mistake". they are in a rush and are not paying attention. so you cannot blame mechanical equipment for someones lackadaisical actions. getting a ticket is not the fault of the machine, blame the officer for not having compassion.

you say you use it everyday. i use all day everyday.i see them in action for many hours at a time every day.

it all simply comes down to people who are in so much of a rush that THEY do not use the system properly.

not a sermon...just a thought.

N2

n2deep wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 21:56
i have been around them for almost 20 years and without a doubt i can say there is nothing wrong with the faregate design or mechanical operations

Hmm. I ride the system everyday and I find the gates rather tricky. Others clearly agree. So yes, the design is lacking. Just because the gates work as they are designed does not mean that the design is any good.

NY Subway style turnstiles seem to me to be a lot better than our hazardous turnstiles that tend to let you through when you shouldn't (see threads about people that get through by mistake and then are given fare evasion tickets).

david

i can fill in most of your questions about the gates. i have been around them for almost 20 years and without a doubt i can say there is nothing wrong with the faregate design or mechanical operations,( which is more than i can say about most other metro functions).

the reason gates close on you is because of one of three things. first you are moving too fast and not allowing the gates to open in the first place, i see this a million times a day. secondly, and this is the most common thing i see, people are in such a hurry that they do not take the time to properly scan their cards. they assume anything close to a proper swipe and the gates should open. when this is attempted after someone in front of you has passed through then you are going to run into a closing gate. i really enjoy the expressions i see when someone does this, a look of anger then a quick look around to see if anyone saw them do it! and thirdly when a group of people are lined up and proceeding through the gates there are quite a few people, alot more than you think, that will fare evade by acting like they are swiping a card but are really only going through the motions. so the second person behind them will get the gate closing on them because the 2.5 second delay has timed out.

the gates will stay open for as many people that process their card correctly. 5 or 500 it doesn't matter. but only for approx. 2 and a half seconds after the last photo sensor has been passed. then it will close.

as for the gates catching people or pinning people. the gates are set to close by a mechanical activator that starts the closing process. and the rest is gravity controlled. there is no force used to close the gates.

i have seen many "accidents " in the gates over the years and not one i can honestly blame on the gates. 99.9% it is people in a hurry. period.

that is as about as simple as i can describe it. and next weeks topic will be how to fare evade with a manila folder, or bubble gum or a magnet.

N2

I sent a message to Metro about my questions on faregate operation relative to smartrip cards. My message was addressed to the blue/orange line manager. I sent the message early this week, and only received an automatic reply.

Nothing further yet. I cannot believe my question and the issue is that complicated - or rather, I can believe that perhaps there is someone who may know the answer, but that the "answer" must go through many layers of approval to make sure the response is worded appropriatly.

Getting an answer out of a government agency, or pseudo-government agency is something I have a wee bit of experience with - in terms of getting approvals/concurrences on verbage. The method may be commonly called the "fire-hydrant" approach, where eath person in a review chain feels compelled to apply their "scent" to a document (hydrant).

I will post, as appropriate, what I hear back on my question.

Jeff

fielding_tjones wrote on Fri, 18 January 2008 16:05
Peruser,

Like you, I thought the technology existed for the faregate arms to remain open during peak traffic periods as long as valid farecards were being scanned. If so, why are people being jammed and injured? Is it your experience that the arms retract on contact, or do they just continue to close?

Fielding_tjones:

I hope someone knowledgable can answer your first question, and speak on the topic of how the faregates are designed to function, their shortcomings, and whether Metro is even aware of faregate jammings and what guidance they can give the public. Perhaps this is a question to ask Mr. Catoe on the monthly noontime chats are published on the wmata.com site.

My experience, if memory serves, as it's been a little while since I've been jammed, is that i got hit by the gate and then I was able to get through. Although, that might be due to my relfexes, as when I have been hit by them, my instinct is to turn and twist while trying to move forward to avoid being hurt.

I think that the gates did retract, but when it happens I get so annoyed, that I'm not looking at the gate, but just trying to not get hurt. Sorry that I couldn't be more sure.

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Per

Peruser,

Like you, I thought the technology existed for the faregate arms to remain open during peak traffic periods as long as valid farecards were being scanned. If so, why are people being jammed and injured? Is it your experience that the arms retract on contact, or do they just continue to close?

fielding_tjones wrote on Wed, 16 January 2008 15:14
A classmate of mine was struck by the barrier arms, lost her balance, fell to the ground and broke her hip. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

YES, I've had encounters with closing faregates, but thankfully with no permanent injuries. There have been several times I've been jammed by closing faregates. This usually occurs during rush hour (the main time I use metro), and when using a smartrip card - perhaps because I'm trying to "push the envelope" of the system by scanning my card right after someone else has gone through, and before the gate has closed - assuming the system is "smart" enough to handle lines of people going through without having to close with each person.

I am much more careful now, maybe even to the consternation of people behind me, as I will wait for the gates to actually close after the person ahead of me has exited, before I scan my card. I don't like bruised hips, nor damage to adjacent sensitive areas. I have had some success with scanning my card before the gates close and been able to go through unscathed, but not dependably.

I am curious . . . now this question is for any Metro staff or management who might be reading this.

It seems to me in this day and age that the faregate system should be sophisticated enough to allow a long line of passengers with smartip cards to exit quickly, without iteratively closing with each passenger, or after a few passengers. Is this assumption true?

If not, can the faregates be retrofitted with an indicator light to indicate that a card has scanned successfully, thereby assuring the "customer" that they won't be jammed by the gates?

By indicator light, I mean a highly visible indicator light, not the little indicator that is often impossible to read when washed out by light from skylights such as at Vienna, which, in my humble opinion was short-sighted design.

I understand that any changes cost money, but we're talking customer service and SAFETY.

I can't believe no one has raised this issue before - I've been jammed, I've seen others get hit by the gates - so it's not something new. The reason I say this, is that I've never read anywhere on Metro's web site about faregate safety and precautions to take in regard to how the system actually functions - maybe it's me who is blind and there is a whole section on Metro's site devoted to this topic.

If Metro thinks it is a brand new issue, then they're simply unaware.

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Per